Quick way to learn French?
Mar 2nd, 2004, 11:13 AM
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Quick way to learn French?
My wife and I are headed back to Paris in a little less than 3 months. We'd love to improve our French by then so that we're less dependent on the Parisians knowing English. I know we'll be fine getting around with just English, but out of American pride (or shame), we'd like to be able to demonstrate some basic Franco language skills.
So, where should we start? It's a bit late to take classes at the local education annex. There are plenty of books but something with audio lessons would be more useful. Are there good web sites for learning conversational French? If not, any recommended software?
Merci Beaucoup!
So, where should we start? It's a bit late to take classes at the local education annex. There are plenty of books but something with audio lessons would be more useful. Are there good web sites for learning conversational French? If not, any recommended software?
Merci Beaucoup!
Mar 2nd, 2004, 11:18 AM
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I did a search of this topic and most people recommended the Pimsleur tapes/CDs. I bought a set at Barnes & Noble and they are pretty good, but I wish they contained more useful vocab. We also hired the local high school French teacher to come and tutor our family once a week. I'd check with your local high school and jr. college falculty (or even whoever teaches the course at the local education annex.) Most teachers aren't rolling in dough and many would welcome the opportunity to pick up a little extra by tutoring you.
Mar 2nd, 2004, 11:23 AM
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Barnesandnoble.com has an online class that I took a couple years ago. It was free at that time. It looks like they charge for it now and it includes a CD-Rom. I thought the free class was good, lots of practice for hearing and speaking. It might be worth checking out. I'm in the same fun boat as you - going to Paris in July and need to brush up my language skills a bit!
Mar 2nd, 2004, 11:46 AM
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Is it really too late to take classes anywhere, because I think that is best. Some places are starting spring sessons fairly soon, for example (such as Alliance Francaise).
I'll be honest, I don't think you can learn from web sites. I have a friend who thought she'd try that for Spanish because she didn't want to invest the time on anything else, and she is even good with languages, but she stopped doing it after only a bit and cannot even put together a simple sentence. I think audiotapes with a book are better as you may stick with it more and I believe you absolutely need written materials to know and understand what you are saying.
I'm studying Spanish now, which is a brushup for me from formal study of several years (many years ago), and I'm also using the Pimsleur Spanish as an adjunct method. I think it's great for me to add some aural and pronunciation work, but don't think anyone could learn from scratch just from those CDs -- at least not and understand structure or even what words they are saying. There is no book with it. I understand the grammar and tenses and vocabulary of most of what they are saying, but if you didn't know Spanish already, I can't see how you could know what the words were or what they are saying a lot of the time. Sometimes they explain structure and tenses, but not most of the time, and some of their vocabulary is not the only or most common way of saying something. I got them free at the library, but would never pay hundreds of bucks for them. However, for tapes, I do think they are pretty good. I've heard the Rosetta Stone company is also pretty good.
I do have some internet resources for French, and many are free, so check out which appeals to you.
University of Texas at Austin French dept.
http://www.laits.utexas.edu/tex/
BBC Language Pages
http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/french/
Radio France International
http://www.rfi.fr/fichiers/langue_francaise
I think there is a good French section on about.com, also
http://bbc.co.uk
I think my Alliance Francaise chapter has online French classes, also (for a fee), but don't know the details. check www.francedc.org
I'll be honest, I don't think you can learn from web sites. I have a friend who thought she'd try that for Spanish because she didn't want to invest the time on anything else, and she is even good with languages, but she stopped doing it after only a bit and cannot even put together a simple sentence. I think audiotapes with a book are better as you may stick with it more and I believe you absolutely need written materials to know and understand what you are saying.
I'm studying Spanish now, which is a brushup for me from formal study of several years (many years ago), and I'm also using the Pimsleur Spanish as an adjunct method. I think it's great for me to add some aural and pronunciation work, but don't think anyone could learn from scratch just from those CDs -- at least not and understand structure or even what words they are saying. There is no book with it. I understand the grammar and tenses and vocabulary of most of what they are saying, but if you didn't know Spanish already, I can't see how you could know what the words were or what they are saying a lot of the time. Sometimes they explain structure and tenses, but not most of the time, and some of their vocabulary is not the only or most common way of saying something. I got them free at the library, but would never pay hundreds of bucks for them. However, for tapes, I do think they are pretty good. I've heard the Rosetta Stone company is also pretty good.
I do have some internet resources for French, and many are free, so check out which appeals to you.
University of Texas at Austin French dept.
http://www.laits.utexas.edu/tex/
BBC Language Pages
http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/french/
Radio France International
http://www.rfi.fr/fichiers/langue_francaise
I think there is a good French section on about.com, also
http://bbc.co.uk
I think my Alliance Francaise chapter has online French classes, also (for a fee), but don't know the details. check www.francedc.org
Mar 2nd, 2004, 12:22 PM
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I don't want to be negative once again, but IMO, there's no way you can manage to learn enough french to communicate in so short a time (except if you already have at least some basic knowledge).
Learning some polite sentences, as frequently advised on this board would be fine of course, but beyond that, even if you manage to learn how to ask a question, you'll be quite likely, unable to understand the answer (personnal experience : asking a passer-by where was the swimming pool in Portugal. Result : a long but fast explanation in Portuguese, with many gestures. I didn't understand a word of what this man was saying. I pretended to have understood something, thanked him and went on searching for a french-speaking Portuguese. And at least this man did understand what I was asking, contrarily to a woman to whom I was desperatly trying to ask a question in serbo-croatian. Result : a blank stare)
Now, I wouldn't want to discourage someone from trying to learn a foreign language. I just wanted to say : don't expect to be able to handle a conversation in french by June if you don't know this language at all.
What I would personnally recommand is books/tapes *and* individual courses with a teacher (say once or twice a week) because there will be things you won't get and you'll need his help to understand them. And also, you'll be able to actually *practice* the language, which is the most important thing.
Learning some polite sentences, as frequently advised on this board would be fine of course, but beyond that, even if you manage to learn how to ask a question, you'll be quite likely, unable to understand the answer (personnal experience : asking a passer-by where was the swimming pool in Portugal. Result : a long but fast explanation in Portuguese, with many gestures. I didn't understand a word of what this man was saying. I pretended to have understood something, thanked him and went on searching for a french-speaking Portuguese. And at least this man did understand what I was asking, contrarily to a woman to whom I was desperatly trying to ask a question in serbo-croatian. Result : a blank stare)
Now, I wouldn't want to discourage someone from trying to learn a foreign language. I just wanted to say : don't expect to be able to handle a conversation in french by June if you don't know this language at all.
What I would personnally recommand is books/tapes *and* individual courses with a teacher (say once or twice a week) because there will be things you won't get and you'll need his help to understand them. And also, you'll be able to actually *practice* the language, which is the most important thing.
Mar 2nd, 2004, 12:36 PM
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oh! Also some people give the following advice, for learning quickly the basics of a language in a way which could prove useful.
The concept is the folowing : forget entirely about the grammar, the spelling, etc... Just concentrate on learning the most useful words, and on pronouncing them correctly. In other words, learn how to say :
"me want these fruit " "me pay fruit how much?"
You might get a laugh (so much for your pride), but :
-your interlocutor will actually understand what you mean
-He'll understand too that you don't really know french, and likely will try to answer in the simpler possible way
-He might like the effort. Actually, especially if you make him laugh, he could be more favorably disposed toward you
-He probably won't avoid to try and use his own mangled english out of shyness.
The idea makes sense to me and I could try this soon with Russian.
The concept is the folowing : forget entirely about the grammar, the spelling, etc... Just concentrate on learning the most useful words, and on pronouncing them correctly. In other words, learn how to say :
"me want these fruit " "me pay fruit how much?"
You might get a laugh (so much for your pride), but :
-your interlocutor will actually understand what you mean
-He'll understand too that you don't really know french, and likely will try to answer in the simpler possible way
-He might like the effort. Actually, especially if you make him laugh, he could be more favorably disposed toward you
-He probably won't avoid to try and use his own mangled english out of shyness.
The idea makes sense to me and I could try this soon with Russian.
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Mar 2nd, 2004, 12:37 PM
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I think you're overestimating how difficult foreigh languages are. If someone alredy knows the basics - from high school for example - its really very simple to pick up a lot more by yourself with tapes/books. I have found as soon as you arrive at a country the old language skills start to revive and in a couple of days you're more or less back to where you were as a student. (I studied Spanish in high school only - did French in college - and on a trip to Spain almost 20 years after high school understanding came back fairly quickly. We wanted to tour a typical aristocratic residence in Seville and the only tours were in Spanish and I "got" at least 80% of what the docent said. It was actually funny - becausee she tried to help us by making a few comments in English but her English was so bad I understood the spanish better. Even my beau - who only had a little junior high spanish got a lot of what was said from his knowledge of Italian. - I think a lot of this is attitude though - the more open you are the easier it is to absorb without worrying too much about the details of grammer.)
Mar 2nd, 2004, 12:44 PM
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I don't want to be negative, but unless you have some basic grounding in the language, there is no way you can make headway in French in a short time. It's a beautiful, elegant language of which the French people are rightly proud, but for English speakers at least it's a very difficult language to acquire. Pronunciation is difficult (non-phonetic with lots of exceptions e.g. when do you pronounce the final consonant?), and the way the sentences are spoken (with liaisons etc), it's
tough to pick out individual words to be able to make an educated guess at what is being said (unlike Spanish, German, Italian etc). It's one of those frustrating languages where you can learn a phrase or two and string them into a sentence, but you are unlikely to understand the replies. With French you do need a proper grounding in grammar and syntax if you want to make any progress IMO.
tough to pick out individual words to be able to make an educated guess at what is being said (unlike Spanish, German, Italian etc). It's one of those frustrating languages where you can learn a phrase or two and string them into a sentence, but you are unlikely to understand the replies. With French you do need a proper grounding in grammar and syntax if you want to make any progress IMO.
Mar 2nd, 2004, 01:50 PM
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I took some classes, but I've recently decided that I want to be better in French. So I've similar questions -- I agree with Alec that French is especially difficult to speak (many exceptions; spoken French can be quite different from what's written -- omitted syllables, words, etc.) -- and any suggestions would be welcome. I've taken classes at the Alliance Francaise in NYC on the weekends, but these meet once a week, and I find it difficult to improve this way.
I really like the "French in Action" series. The episodes were shown on PBS at one point. But you can now actually watch the individual episodes online for free.
See
http://www.learner.org/resources/series83.html
Unfortunately the characters simply speak way too quickly for me. This is the sort of level I wish to reach eventually (but I'm pretty doubtful that I'll get there). The first couple of lessons can still be useful for someone starting to learn French, but the level gets tough pretty quickly.
I really like the "French in Action" series. The episodes were shown on PBS at one point. But you can now actually watch the individual episodes online for free.
See
http://www.learner.org/resources/series83.html
Unfortunately the characters simply speak way too quickly for me. This is the sort of level I wish to reach eventually (but I'm pretty doubtful that I'll get there). The first couple of lessons can still be useful for someone starting to learn French, but the level gets tough pretty quickly.
Mar 2nd, 2004, 01:57 PM
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Austai - you seem to be getting a lot of negative feedback here saying that with 3 months left you've shot it.
Well I beg to differ! You evidently know some already (you say you wish to improve your french) and so 3 months is plenty of time to make a difference provided you mean it and approach it with due diligence!
My fiancée is french and my language skills had to improve very rapidly VERY quickly if I hoped to build on the early stages of our relationship.
The best way I found to do this was to go for private tuition locally with a member of the french community in my home town for an hour in the evening twice a week.
I also immersed my self in French pop music (thus acquiring a rabid fan-dom of Serge Gainsbourg/Briget Bardot & Michel Polnareff)which helps by osmosis(!) and took a subscription to a french tabloid newspaper[Au-jourd'hui] (so what if it arrived a day or two late - it made interesting reading and helped me understand that 'other world' across the channel.
Within six weeks I was showing real tangible progress and 3 months I was flying. And mademoiselle was VERY impressed and rather tickled too (but that's another story!)
I'm sure there must be French people living in your town/city who advertise to give lessons. You really ought to give it a concerted effort (but make sure you really do give it good go or you'll just be wasting your money and time) and , really, invest in some CDs by some french artists, remember they all learnt english by singing along to the Beatles!
Good luck, and don't be disheartened by these naysayers!
Dr D.
Well I beg to differ! You evidently know some already (you say you wish to improve your french) and so 3 months is plenty of time to make a difference provided you mean it and approach it with due diligence!
My fiancée is french and my language skills had to improve very rapidly VERY quickly if I hoped to build on the early stages of our relationship.
The best way I found to do this was to go for private tuition locally with a member of the french community in my home town for an hour in the evening twice a week.
I also immersed my self in French pop music (thus acquiring a rabid fan-dom of Serge Gainsbourg/Briget Bardot & Michel Polnareff)which helps by osmosis(!) and took a subscription to a french tabloid newspaper[Au-jourd'hui] (so what if it arrived a day or two late - it made interesting reading and helped me understand that 'other world' across the channel.
Within six weeks I was showing real tangible progress and 3 months I was flying. And mademoiselle was VERY impressed and rather tickled too (but that's another story!)
I'm sure there must be French people living in your town/city who advertise to give lessons. You really ought to give it a concerted effort (but make sure you really do give it good go or you'll just be wasting your money and time) and , really, invest in some CDs by some french artists, remember they all learnt english by singing along to the Beatles!
Good luck, and don't be disheartened by these naysayers!
Dr D.
Mar 2nd, 2004, 02:06 PM
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Hi, DrGood, interesting comments -- I've been thinking of getting a tutor too. How did you go about getting one? It seems that word-of-mouth recommendation would be important.
Christina, I'm starting to check out the Radio France link -- very useful! Thanks for posting it. Will look into the others too.
Christina, I'm starting to check out the Radio France link -- very useful! Thanks for posting it. Will look into the others too.
Mar 2nd, 2004, 02:33 PM
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111op - I don't know how it works where you are but we have a system in the UK where people can display a little hand written card/advert on the noticeboard at post offices or newsagents. That's how I found my tutor - I just picked one of the two or three that were advertising.
I suppose you could try yellow pages or conatct the local schools' language departments to see if they know of any one (a class roon assistant maybe or locum for when the French teacher is sick?)
Dr D.
I suppose you could try yellow pages or conatct the local schools' language departments to see if they know of any one (a class roon assistant maybe or locum for when the French teacher is sick?)
Dr D.
Mar 2nd, 2004, 05:15 PM
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One hint : the most important sentence is "can you speak a little more slowly please" - usually if you're having trouble understanding and the person slows down a little everything becomes clear.
One other thought - can you receive any Montreal TV or radio where you are - that might be helpful.
One other thought - can you receive any Montreal TV or radio where you are - that might be helpful.
Mar 2nd, 2004, 08:02 PM
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111op, I really like the French in Action series. I went to http://www.learner.org/resources/series83.html
and I could listen to it, but I couldn't watch the video. What do you do to see the video? That would make it more interesting than just listening to it.I saw the series on PBS years ago and found it really useful for improving my ear for understanding French.
I also like the Italian Pimsleur series, but I have had lots of French (years ago) and suspect that it would be too slow for me. The Italian Pimsleur was very repetitive and used a fairly limited vocabulary.
and I could listen to it, but I couldn't watch the video. What do you do to see the video? That would make it more interesting than just listening to it.I saw the series on PBS years ago and found it really useful for improving my ear for understanding French.
I also like the Italian Pimsleur series, but I have had lots of French (years ago) and suspect that it would be too slow for me. The Italian Pimsleur was very repetitive and used a fairly limited vocabulary.
Mar 2nd, 2004, 08:14 PM
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Suggestion: If you commute, play tapes whenever you are in the car. We got a crazy set of tapes called "LinguaFun Language Learning Card Games" in French. There is a tape recording that includes pronounciation on one side, phrase by phrase. On the other side is a little game that combines phrases. There is also a set of red cards, white cards and blue cards. Each color has a portion of a sentence and you can combine the portions to make literally thousands of sentences. Playing the card games is fun an combined with listening to the tapes, you pick it up almost by osmosis.
There are two sets and they are available at Borders, Barnes and Noble and online. I highly recommend them. I finally signed up for French at the local university and discovered I was way ahead of the class from my little card games.
The secret is that you can say sentences and they make sense. It's great. You can deal with the fine points of grammar after you have survived your trip and have some more time.
Good luck. We're working on Italian right now!
There are two sets and they are available at Borders, Barnes and Noble and online. I highly recommend them. I finally signed up for French at the local university and discovered I was way ahead of the class from my little card games.
The secret is that you can say sentences and they make sense. It's great. You can deal with the fine points of grammar after you have survived your trip and have some more time.
Good luck. We're working on Italian right now!
Mar 2nd, 2004, 09:15 PM
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Austai,
In your situation, I high recommend the Pimsleur series. I have used them successfully. They are very expensive so try to find them at your library.
You can try the first lesson of each level online at no cost:
http://www.sybervision.com/freeaudio.htm
They come in various packages, 4 CD, 8 CD, etc. They are merely the first CDes of the full set so if you want to get into them, go straight to the full 16 CD set.
In your situation, I high recommend the Pimsleur series. I have used them successfully. They are very expensive so try to find them at your library.
You can try the first lesson of each level online at no cost:
http://www.sybervision.com/freeaudio.htm
They come in various packages, 4 CD, 8 CD, etc. They are merely the first CDes of the full set so if you want to get into them, go straight to the full 16 CD set.
Mar 3rd, 2004, 12:10 AM
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Bonjour Austai,
So far, I think Clairobscur and Dr DoGood gave you the better advice (although I object at his choice of French music ;-)). He's also right about the way most Europeans actually learn English.
Try also renting French movies and watch them with the French subtitles on, read classic French comics (Asterix, Gaston Lagaffe, Tintin, ...).
Any efforts you make to speak the language will be appreciated, blunders will be smiled at, but considered cute and expected from a foreigner. Most of the time a correction will follow not out of a will to belittle you but in order to help you improve.
So far, I think Clairobscur and Dr DoGood gave you the better advice (although I object at his choice of French music ;-)). He's also right about the way most Europeans actually learn English.
Try also renting French movies and watch them with the French subtitles on, read classic French comics (Asterix, Gaston Lagaffe, Tintin, ...).
Any efforts you make to speak the language will be appreciated, blunders will be smiled at, but considered cute and expected from a foreigner. Most of the time a correction will follow not out of a will to belittle you but in order to help you improve.
